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Chav time :) BOV questions


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#21 dnok

dnok
  • LocationElland West Yorkshire

Posted 20 July 2016 - 07:41 PM

Fuming! Just wrote a massive detailed post and lost it :(

Ok, summery.
New bung wouldn't fit even with silicone lube, don't ask.
So fitted original bung with good jubilee. Tested on closed circuit :)

0-60 with 3500rpm launch, same with bov or bpv
WOT from 3000rpm in 2nd, no difference.
Gentle pull from no revs, I.e moving off from traffic lights, bpv smooth, bov boggy.
Holding 45mph in 2nd bpv smooth bov lurchy.
Pull from 2000rpm in 4th bpv smooth bov laggy.
Normal town stop start driving, bpv smooth bov laggy/boggy.
Coming to a stop or near stop I.e junction etc bpv normal bov nearly stalling out sometimes not all times.

Now surely if the seal on the bung wasn't quite right I'd be noticing a loss of boost on WOT and the 0-60 runs?

This is doin my nut in

#22 Blastertrev

Blastertrev
  • LocationSunny Cumbria (NOT)

Posted 20 July 2016 - 09:16 PM

With the engine coldish try putting some water/Fairy liquid slop around your bung. Do a quick drive to get some boost on, check for foam, that'll let you know whether you're leaking or not. Having been doing turbo calculations recently and knowing the immense volumes of air that go through the manifold I don't think a small leak would be giving you the difference you're seeing anyway, you've obviously done a reasonable job.


May the Foz be with you....


#23 dnok

dnok
  • LocationElland West Yorkshire

Posted 20 July 2016 - 10:36 PM

Thanks for the tips buddy. Helpful as ever :)

I'm just going to bite the bullet and go back to standard. I'll cross the bov bridge whilst getting my tune from mr carr. He will be using carberry so I looked it up. The things that it can do on the standard ECU are hugely impressive, one of which being a speed density conversion I.e maf delete :) it's not even expensive lol and neither is the air temp sensor and better map sensor. There is launch control and anti lag but I don't fancy wrecking the engine that fast lol.

Anyway here's a copy and paste of the carberry capabilities just for a little light reading.



Aftermarket ECU Functionality on Subaru MY01-05 OEM ECU

teamCarr has taken a lead in offering all the features of a £1000+ aftermarket ECU for the cost of a remap.

This conversion can be applied to any 16bit WRX or STi ECU and starts at only £300.

All essential OEM features are retained

Closed loop knock control with learned ignition table and boost disable
CEL Fault Code and DTC recording
Instant starting - hot or cold
Consistent Idle - even when heatsoaked
Accurate closed loop fuelling on idle and cruise with learned fuelling correction
Additional capabilities

Speed Density conversion
2 full maps
Per gear boost control
Flash CEL on Knock
Eliminate 1.7bar boost control/fuelcut limit
Use any aftermarket MAP sensor
GpN Antilag
Launch Control
Full Throttle Gearchange
Click each feature to see more details
Limitations

Whilst this exciting new offering extends the capabilities of the OEM ECU, it cannot overcome certain limitations:

As this system was original intended for STi use only, it cannot control the TGV system found on WRX engines, therefore a 'TGV delete' or 'TGV lockout' must be performed prior to use on these vehicles. Whilst the TGV lockout can be carried out at the time of mapping it is only a temporary measure and we would strongly recommend a TGV delete be performed as soon as possible.
EDM WRX ECU cannot control AVCS, to use AVCS heads on a WRX requires swapping to an STi ECU and some additional wiring (all of which can be supplied and fitted at the time of mapping).
The use of Launch Control and Antilag Systems is for offroad use only and can be damaging to an engine valvetrain, turbo, exhaust, etc. I will NOT enable these features on any vehicle with a pre-turbo catalytic converter, O2 or EGT sensor. Whilst a pre-turbo cat and EGT sensor can be removed, I would recommend retaining the front O2 sensor by relocating it, post turbo.
Pricing

With this many new features and options available it is impossible to quote a single price for all conversions, the following is a selection of the most popular prices and options:

Speed Density Conversion, custom remap £300
SD Conversion, custom remap, 2 maps for high/low boost, single switch £350
SD Conversion, custom remap, 2 maps different fuels, ALS, LC, 2 switches £450
OmniPower Direct replacement 3bara MAP sensor £100
OmniPower Direct replacement 4bara MAP sensor £120
TGV Lockout £20
Aftermarket air temp sensor, supply and fit £30
3 Port Boost Solenoid (new), supply and fit £50
Clutch switch, supply and fit £60
Additional feature switch, supply and fit £10

Note: We offer a significant discount on conversions for existing customers who already have one of our custom ECU remaps.
Feature Details

Speed Density Conversion

A speed density ECU uses manifold absolute pressure (MAP), Air Intake Temperature (AIT) and engine speed (RPM) instead of Mass Air Flow (MAF) to determine the correct fuel injector duration and ignition timing for a given engine load. Eliminating the MAF results in a smoother more consistent driving experience, especially on cars fitted with front mount intercoolers and/or larger turbos, where the pipe length from MAF to engine and flow reversion through the MAF can result in unpleasant driving characteristics.

Whilst switching to Speed Density eliminates the need for a MAF sensor, the Subaru MAF sensor also incorporates an air inlet temp sensor which is required for any speed density system to work. So, just as with an aftermarket ECU, a suitable air temp sensor must be fitted if you wish to remove the MAF sensor completely.

The price quoted above for supplying and fitting this item includes drilling and tapping your intercooler or front mount pipework in order to fit the sensor.
2 full maps

Most existing tuning software for the Subaru ECU allows the mapper to setup 2 different boost target and wastegate duty maps, the driver switches between them by pressing the rear demister switch whilst holding full open throttle, no indication is given as to which map is selected.

This new ECU software allows the mapper to setup 2 complete maps, comprising fuelling, ignition timing, boost and AVCS control. Map selection is made via a cabin mounted switch and the driver can switch maps at any time.
Per gear boost control

The ECU can be 'taught' a cars gear ratios and then both boost target and wastegate duty offsets applied for each gear.
Flash CEL on Knock

The CEL can be made to flash when the ECU retards ignition timing beyond a configurable tolerance, 2-3degrees is normal.
Eliminate 1.7bar boost control/fuelcut limit

The standard ECU software cannot be configured to work with manifold pressures above 2.72bara (1.72barg), no matter what MAP sensor is fitted. This new software allows the ECU to work with manifold pressures upto 4bara.
Use any aftermarket MAP sensor

Most of the vehicles covered by this software use MAP sensor p/n 22627AA170, this sensor can only read pressure accurately to 2.5bara, which essentially limits mapping to 1.4bar boost if closed loop boost control and an overboost fuelcut facility are to be retained (essential when using speed density as the MAP sensor limit should NEVER be exceeded). Later cars use MAP sensor p/n 22627AA360 which can read to 3bara and is a direct swap for the earlier sensor, however, it is prohibitively expensive to buy new.

Aftermarket MAP sensors are notoriously difficult to configure with the Subaru OEM ECU, resulting in high idle speeds and unstable boost control, this is due to the limited configuration control offered within the standard ECU software.

This new software allows the use of virtually any 0-5v pressure sensor, including the 'GM' and AEM/Kavlico type external sensors aswell as the Omnipower direct replacement sensors, for which teamCarr is an authorised dealer.
GpN Antilag

Fully functional antilag with ignition retard, fuel cut and ABV control, at the flick of a switch.

For the more competition minded, the ECU is also capable of running a rotational idle strategy and/or a throttle kicker.

Launch Control

If you thought a stationary rev limiter was launch control then wait until you try this out, full on cyclic ignition and fuel cut strategy will see you spitting 3 metre long flames and causing momentary blackout when you step off the clutch!

Full Throttle Gearchange

Holding the throttle wide open during gearchanges greatly reduces turbo lag by keeping gas flowing through the engine and keeping the turbo spinning even though there is no load on the engine. The downside of this is that the engine is bouncing of the revlimiter and the transmission is severely shocked when the clutch is re-engaged. A flat shift system improves this situation by reducing the engine speed during full throttle gear changes.

This particular implementation goes one step further; by using the 'learned' gear ratio information; the ECU takes the current engine speed and calculates the correct RPM to engage the next gear smoothly, setting this as the target engine speed limiter, additionally the ECU only activates the flatshift system above a configurable engine speed and throttle opening angle.

In order for a flatshift system to work correctly it needs to know that the driver is changing gear, the 2 most common methods used to register this are either a clutch mounted switch or a strain gauge built into the gearlever.

Conveniently there is a facility to fit a clutch switch (83281AA000) to the 01-05 Impreza, originally intended for use with cruise control, it became standard fitment on 06-onward cars.

#24 brownpantsracing

brownpantsracing
  • LocationBucks

Posted 20 July 2016 - 11:15 PM

Funnily enough I emailed Andrew Carr this afternoon about mapping my FSTI. Been watching the carrberry rom develop over the years and heard many good things about it and Andrew.

2004 FSTI, Modified 2006 Impreza, 1963 VW beetle. All on the road for once! Woo hoo! :)


#25 Blastertrev

Blastertrev
  • LocationSunny Cumbria (NOT)

Posted 21 July 2016 - 08:27 AM

Thanks for the tips buddy. Helpful as ever :)

I'm just going to bite the bullet and go back to standard. I'll cross the bov bridge whilst getting my tune from mr carr. 

Likely a wise move, your motor just doesn't sound happy with BOV.

 

Funnily enough I emailed Andrew Carr this afternoon about mapping my FSTI. Been watching the carrberry rom develop over the years and heard many good things about it and Andrew.

Having done mine, I can assure you he knows his stuff.


May the Foz be with you....


#26 dnok

dnok
  • LocationElland West Yorkshire

Posted 21 July 2016 - 09:57 AM

Well this pretty much sums up my conclusions. About 6 million other Subaru drivers too lol. Strange how for some people there's no issues. Weird......

"yes you could just pull the pipe off and plug up the hole and it would go pshhh real loud but there are a few small trade offs. unfortunately 60% of the time your car will stall when you pull up at the traffic lights, 40% of the time it will stall at idle, 100% of the time you will get over rich mixtures on gearshifts making your car slower and sometimes buck and jump around on gearshift, and 3% of the time your car might blow a small flame out the exhaust if you have a free flowing exhaust with no cat. and 100% of the time it will drive like @ss and surge at light throttle and use more fuel.
decide what you are looking for from your car? if you want a car that drives like @ss but goes pshh for free then hook in and get that pipe off."

That pretty much covers my experience lol.

#27 brownpantsracing

brownpantsracing
  • LocationBucks

Posted 21 July 2016 - 10:05 AM

Hmm, how odd. If you lived closer I'd let you bolt my HKS unit on to test. Very frustrating. You'll have to live with the standard unit until mapping time then.


2004 FSTI, Modified 2006 Impreza, 1963 VW beetle. All on the road for once! Woo hoo! :)


#28 dnok

dnok
  • LocationElland West Yorkshire

Posted 21 July 2016 - 12:08 PM

Frustrating to say the least. It gets better tho hahaha.

I've had a lot of errands to run this morning, darting here and there. I've been pretty hard on the old bus and guess what, hasn't stalled once and pulls no problem. To be honest it's felt quicker today but I'm putting that down to the air temps here being considerably cooler today.

At the most it has dipped the revs and almost stumbled at idle. I'm perplexed. Could this be the learning ECU helping out? Unless it's the hot as hell weather that's been making things worse? Sounds daft but I'm open to all theory right now lol

#29 brownpantsracing

brownpantsracing
  • LocationBucks

Posted 21 July 2016 - 01:18 PM

Probably down to the learning ECU then.

 

Found this thread showing how to re-learn how to idle if you've done an ECU reset. The same may apply to fitting a dump valve as you've changed the system in some way. May be worth disconnecting the battery, draining all the residual power by pressing the brake peddle a few times then going through this procedure. It may improve after driving an hour by the look of it.

 

http://www.subarufor...w-engine-83004/


2004 FSTI, Modified 2006 Impreza, 1963 VW beetle. All on the road for once! Woo hoo! :)


#30 Blastertrev

Blastertrev
  • LocationSunny Cumbria (NOT)

Posted 21 July 2016 - 01:33 PM

Frustrating to say the least. It gets better tho hahaha.

I've had a lot of errands to run this morning, darting here and there. I've been pretty hard on the old bus and guess what, hasn't stalled once and pulls no problem. To be honest it's felt quicker today but I'm putting that down to the air temps here being considerably cooler today.

At the most it has dipped the revs and almost stumbled at idle. I'm perplexed. Could this be the learning ECU helping out? Unless it's the hot as hell weather that's been making things worse? Sounds daft but I'm open to all theory right now lol

Maybe it was getting hot and BOVvered :rofl: 


May the Foz be with you....


#31 brownpantsracing

brownpantsracing
  • LocationBucks

Posted 21 July 2016 - 01:35 PM

Shall I get your coat? LOL


2004 FSTI, Modified 2006 Impreza, 1963 VW beetle. All on the road for once! Woo hoo! :)


#32 dnok

dnok
  • LocationElland West Yorkshire

Posted 21 July 2016 - 03:58 PM

I always disconect battery and reset ECU when doing something with the engine. I don't however do the relearning idle thing though so I will certainly give that a go cheers fella :)

My brain is starting to formulate a theory around these issues and turbo size. My teeny weeny turbo may be more susceptible to surge or whatever due to relatively small amounts of pressure being able to move or even stall it. Meh it's just a theory. Interested to see if that idle learning does any good though for sure.

#33 dnok

dnok
  • LocationElland West Yorkshire

Posted 21 July 2016 - 04:00 PM

Maybe it was getting hot and BOVvered :rofl:

Cheers pal lol I needed a laugh and that cheered me right up pmsl

#34 brownpantsracing

brownpantsracing
  • LocationBucks

Posted 21 July 2016 - 04:02 PM

I think the car in the thread was a 2007 car, but you'd have thought it should still work. I know mine takes a little while to settle after the ECU has been reset. It's common.


2004 FSTI, Modified 2006 Impreza, 1963 VW beetle. All on the road for once! Woo hoo! :)


#35 dnok

dnok
  • LocationElland West Yorkshire

Posted 21 July 2016 - 07:54 PM

Yeah I've heard of the idle thing on older models than that. I'd just completely forgot about it, then I started googling and was like huh? I've read this before lol

#36 brownpantsracing

brownpantsracing
  • LocationBucks

Posted 22 July 2016 - 10:31 AM

LOL.


2004 FSTI, Modified 2006 Impreza, 1963 VW beetle. All on the road for once! Woo hoo! :)





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